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Is it the medium, the message, or both? Deconstructing a communication failure

March 10, 2010 By 14 Comments

We had a bit of a tempest in a teacup over here in Vancouver yesterday afternoon-evening over comments on an upcoming Third Tuesday Meetup Event. What I find far more interesting than the discussion, which was certainly interesting, is the whole medium-message question-quandary. Here is a good segment from a post about the events of yesterday:

But it wasn’t to be. Despite Kris Krug’s solo attempt to build a bridge to a positive outcome, things hit a dead end with an organizer’s post:
Tobias: This has become tiresome. If you’d like to continue this discussion, you have a blog. Or you can attend the event. Wait, you likely won’t because you don’t appreciate the direction and don’t approve of the choice of panelists. And you don’t intend to come from Whistler.
Followed by shortly by:
…I myself have enjoyed following this discussion, however there are a lot of people unwittingly subscribed by email to this thread and find this tiresome….
No such comments were posted by the unwitting recipients, so who knows where that insight came from, but it helped make any further discussion unpalatable.
link: Tuesday’s Loss – Corvus Consulting (italics added by author to distinguish quotes from text)

I’ll admit, the continued barrage of message was pretty tiring. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that many comments on a Third Tuesday event. Yes, there is a handy, “if you want to stop receiving messages about this event click here…” But I wonder what would have happened if the organizers needed to update something important (like time or venue)? Would I miss out on that message?

So I didn’t click.

So the messages kept coming.

And coming.

And coming.

So, the organizers suggested that the discussion be moved to a blog post. A good idea since people could choose to opt in or out of the discussion and not change or block receiving messages about the event.

I think there is an interesting point here about discussion. I don’t think people were averse to discussing the issue, but I think they were getting tired of discussing it there. There’s a big difference there.

It seems to me that the issue brings up another example of the problem of having lots of places where discussion or commentary can occur but can doesn’t equate should. I think there was an expectation that discussion doesn’t happen there, so having a discussion there was jarring and unwelcome. Again, it’s the there part that’s key.

I can think of lots of other examples of this same thing happening, and often with the same result.

Now, one thing that TobiasTodd left out of his post was the offer from the organizers to move the discussion to the Facebook group:

Tobias, I agree that a broader, larger panel would be great. Logistically though, three people is already a busy talk. That said, you raise some good points and I want to hear your questions. Could you please message me with topics you’d like covered? I know our panelists might not be who you wanted, but this is a celebration of social media. And social media is discussion. If I can address an issue for you at the panel, I’ll do my best to voice your thoughts. Same goes for anyone else.
[followed by]
Sorry everyone – one last message. I realize email is not the most social technology, so I created a discussion for this event on the Third Tuesday Vancouver Facebook group. While it’d be great to continue the conversation here, it seems we’re sending out lots of email notifications, so let’s keep things moving without clogging up the inbox. The group page is here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=266947057928&ref=ts Chat soon.

Which if the discussion had moved there, I don’t know I haven’t checked, I think it would have been fine. Better than a blog? Don’t know, but certainly better than what was going on there.

I almost wonder if part of creating tools that allow comments, is creating the rules about how to use the comments.

Update: I incorrectly attributed the post I linked to as being written by Tobias, when it was actually written by Todd Sieling. Apologies to Todd. I’ve edited the post to reflect the correct author.

Filed Under: Internet Life, Social Media Tagged With: , ,
  • http://corvusconsulting.ca Todd Sieling

    Tobias didn’t write the blog post, I did. It was Tobias’ comment that kicked off the discussion. Todd/Tobias – close name, I know.

    I didn’t mention the move to Facebook because when I looked in on that forum this morning there was nothing there, and to me it signalled that the discussion had died.

    The linear comment form at Meetup and elsewhere isn’t much different from how the Facebook discussion interface is, and the only big difference would be being able to track comments through the newsfeed. I’m not sure how different that would have made it all.

  • http://corvusconsulting.ca Todd Sieling

    Tobias didn’t write the blog post, I did. It was Tobias’ comment that kicked off the discussion. Todd/Tobias – close name, I know.

    I didn’t mention the move to Facebook because when I looked in on that forum this morning there was nothing there, and to me it signalled that the discussion had died.

    The linear comment form at Meetup and elsewhere isn’t much different from how the Facebook discussion interface is, and the only big difference would be being able to track comments through the newsfeed. I’m not sure how different that would have made it all.

  • http://twitter.com/JuanHerr Juan

    I actually just checked out the Facebook group, after leaving a comment and realizing that I’m probably just adding to the email noise!

    Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be much discussion going on in the Facebook group. Either people are just tired of the arguing, or they prefer to save their opinions for the actual event.

    Personally, I think Tobias made some good points, but you’re right – I think most people just got tired of having that conversation in the comments section.

    Maybe it’s because there’s an unspoken rule about the comment sections being reserved for short, pithy responses, not long multi-paragraph essays.

    With that in mind, I think I’m finished here. ;)

  • http://twitter.com/JuanHerr Juan

    I actually just checked out the Facebook group, after leaving a comment and realizing that I’m probably just adding to the email noise!

    Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be much discussion going on in the Facebook group. Either people are just tired of the arguing, or they prefer to save their opinions for the actual event.

    Personally, I think Tobias made some good points, but you’re right – I think most people just got tired of having that conversation in the comments section.

    Maybe it’s because there’s an unspoken rule about the comment sections being reserved for short, pithy responses, not long multi-paragraph essays.

    With that in mind, I think I’m finished here. ;)

  • http://fugitive.quadrantcrossing.org tV

    Just for the record, the first quote should read as being addressed to me, and not from me.

    You might be interested in the follow-up here (see the comments), which is much more positive:

    http://corvusconsulting.ca/2010/03/tuesdays-loss/

    And indeed, the question of situating online discussion is a good one. I, for one, did not know that writing in the comment field would be distributed to all 100+ members on the list… comment fields are usually just that — comment fields.

  • http://fugitive.quadrantcrossing.org tV

    Just for the record, the first quote should read as being addressed to me, and not from me.

    You might be interested in the follow-up here (see the comments), which is much more positive:

    http://corvusconsulting.ca/2010/03/tuesdays-loss/

    And indeed, the question of situating online discussion is a good one. I, for one, did not know that writing in the comment field would be distributed to all 100+ members on the list… comment fields are usually just that — comment fields.

  • http://www.designisphilosophy.com Morten Rand-Hendriksen

    I tried to read all of the back and forth after you posted this and I have to say I’m quite astonished how this discussion deteriorated – maybe most of all because it all boils down to a bad case of term confusion.

    Tobias has a valid point, but not in the way he was interpreted. As far as I understand it when he implied that the panelists have some vested interest in social media and that there should be some more impartial representatives on the speaker list what he was refering to was not as much that the panelists rake in tons of cash on social media in general (or the Olympics in particular) but rather that these panelists have standings as social media gurus in Vancouver and thereby have a vested interest in upholding that reputation through events like these. If I understand him right he was looking for a panelist that is not a social media celeb but “just” a citizen journalist to provide some insight into the issue without all the social media baggage. I have a feeling this links all the way back to the fact that by and large most social media events in Vancouver tend to have the same set of panelists and in such instances there is usually an academic concern over an echo chamber effect. Whether this is true or not is a different story all together, but it is a relevant discussion not being had at the moment.

    Cue flame war.

  • http://www.designisphilosophy.com Morten Rand-Hendriksen

    I tried to read all of the back and forth after you posted this and I have to say I’m quite astonished how this discussion deteriorated – maybe most of all because it all boils down to a bad case of term confusion.

    Tobias has a valid point, but not in the way he was interpreted. As far as I understand it when he implied that the panelists have some vested interest in social media and that there should be some more impartial representatives on the speaker list what he was refering to was not as much that the panelists rake in tons of cash on social media in general (or the Olympics in particular) but rather that these panelists have standings as social media gurus in Vancouver and thereby have a vested interest in upholding that reputation through events like these. If I understand him right he was looking for a panelist that is not a social media celeb but “just” a citizen journalist to provide some insight into the issue without all the social media baggage. I have a feeling this links all the way back to the fact that by and large most social media events in Vancouver tend to have the same set of panelists and in such instances there is usually an academic concern over an echo chamber effect. Whether this is true or not is a different story all together, but it is a relevant discussion not being had at the moment.

    Cue flame war.

  • http://www.trishussey.com/ Tris Hussey

    First, Todd, apologies for the misattribution, I’ve edited the post to reflect who the correct author is.

    Thanks for the comments everyone. Since I try to avoid Facebook as much as humanly possible…I didn’t know there wasn’t a discussion on going there.

    I think the question of how the commenting systems work and when they work and don’t is one that we’re still grappling with.

    Now as for the excellent points that Tobias brought up…that’s the subject of another post.

    Or hopefully the panel at Northern Voice.

  • http://www.trishussey.com/ Tris Hussey

    First, Todd, apologies for the misattribution, I’ve edited the post to reflect who the correct author is.

    Thanks for the comments everyone. Since I try to avoid Facebook as much as humanly possible…I didn’t know there wasn’t a discussion on going there.

    I think the question of how the commenting systems work and when they work and don’t is one that we’re still grappling with.

    Now as for the excellent points that Tobias brought up…that’s the subject of another post.

    Or hopefully the panel at Northern Voice.

  • http://kempedmonds.com kemp

    LOL! I was totally going to blog about this then thought better of it. Thanks for bringing it up Tris.

    “I, for one, did not know that writing in the comment field would be distributed to all 100+ members on the list…”
    -tV. This is was the issue.

    @Mort
    “These panelists have standings as social media gurus in Vancouver and thereby have a vested interest in upholding that reputation through events like these.” -Mort

    A vested interest in upholding what reputation? How can one uphold a reputation as a ‘social media guru’ when they have never called themselves that. That’s something you and others call them.

    “If I understand him right he was looking for a panelist that is not a social media celeb but “just” a citizen journalist to provide some insight into the issue without all the social media baggage.” -Mort

    What the heck is a social media ‘celeb’? And how does using social media well stop someone from being a citizen journalist? Lastly, what the heck is ‘all the social media baggage’?

    Thanks Mort, I look forward to your response.

  • http://kempedmonds.com kemp

    LOL! I was totally going to blog about this then thought better of it. Thanks for bringing it up Tris.

    “I, for one, did not know that writing in the comment field would be distributed to all 100+ members on the list…”
    -tV. This is was the issue.

    @Mort
    “These panelists have standings as social media gurus in Vancouver and thereby have a vested interest in upholding that reputation through events like these.” -Mort

    A vested interest in upholding what reputation? How can one uphold a reputation as a ‘social media guru’ when they have never called themselves that. That’s something you and others call them.

    “If I understand him right he was looking for a panelist that is not a social media celeb but “just” a citizen journalist to provide some insight into the issue without all the social media baggage.” -Mort

    What the heck is a social media ‘celeb’? And how does using social media well stop someone from being a citizen journalist? Lastly, what the heck is ‘all the social media baggage’?

    Thanks Mort, I look forward to your response.

  • http://www.designisphilosophy.com Morten Rand-Hendriksen

    @kemp: I’m not touching that one with a ten foot pole.

  • http://www.designisphilosophy.com Morten Rand-Hendriksen

    @kemp: I’m not touching that one with a ten foot pole.

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